chapter 7. easy to join tough to leave .
so even though jehovah’s witnesses are pacifist there are some people the witnesses actually do hate.
the people they hate the most, are former jehovah’s witnesses.
Muddy waters
Hey buddy. I'm half German too. Love the Germans. A little strange that Almost all the heavies back in the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies and eighties were Germans. Knorr, Franz, Swingle, Suiter, Henshel ect ect.....
Darkspilver
Good point I will change that.
as i was sitting in the meeting last night i thought about this question.. sometimes it feels really lonely because i don't connect with most others in the congregation and i have to be so careful with the ones with whom i do associate.. quick rundown on my life...got baptized at 17...married at 20...became inactive at 28 wife still active though...came back to meetings with her 20 years later just to keep her quiet and see if they had changed (for a while i actually thought they had)...now i am still inactive and haven't gone out in service or anything.
i just go to meetings with my wife who is happy as a lark to have me there with her...just go to meetings and think...and think...and think.... anyway, i just wondered if there are any out there like me who are going to meetings and nothing else?.
After 50 years of meetings
No I'm free at last
free at last
thank god I'm free at last!
chapter 7. easy to join tough to leave .
so even though jehovah’s witnesses are pacifist there are some people the witnesses actually do hate.
the people they hate the most, are former jehovah’s witnesses.
Chapter 7
Easy to join tough to leave
So even though Jehovah’s Witnesses are pacifist there are some people the Witnesses actually do hate. The people they hate the most, are former Jehovah’s Witnesses. That’s right, if you joined them and get baptized, you better stay in their faith. Your baptism is for life, with no parole, just like in the Mafia. There is no changing your mind. If you do leave the cost will be considerable.
There are three basic ways people become Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The first is very rare. It’s called “informal witnessing.” A witness will meet a person not in the “field service" (door to door activity) and strike up a conversation. It could be a schoolmate or workmate. I say mate and not friend because friends outside of congregation are highly discouraged. People will say “I have a friend who is a Jehovah’s Witness.” But really, how much of a friend was he to you? Did he ever invite you over for dinner? Probably not. If indeed you did have a Jehovah Witness friend and you did lots of things together they were either doing it on the sly, or they were someone who was not in “good standing” in the congregation. Anyway the conversation will start with the witnesses asking you some questions about how you feel about the current “system of things.” They are hoping you might be looking for a change or better yet, maybe for god’s intervention. From there they will give you some of their literature. Thus hoping to start a “home bible study” with you which of course will lead to your baptism.
The second way is from the “door to door” activity. This is called “field service.” They will knock on your door looking for as they call it “sheep like ones” or “people receptive to the good news.” They will leave their literature hoping you will read it. They will call back every week afterwards until you tell them not to come back anymore, or you tell them you want a “home bible study.” This will lead to your baptism.
The third way is as I mentioned before…is sex. This is how the vast majority of Jehovah’s Witnesses are now created. It wasn’t always this way. From the early years of the church through the nineteen eighties people joined the religion by way of the “door to door” activity mostly. What has changed? Two things. 1. Millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses are having sex with each. 2. People are now more educated. Now with the internet people can really research religions before they join them. Not too many people now a days are looking for a religion that got started in the 1870's by a bunch of Germans from Pennsylvania . A religion that doesn’t believe in any holidays, is very restrictive sexually and has been preaching the end of the world is coming for over a hundred years.
So that is how Jehovah’s Witnesses are made.
After you have learn the facts about their religion they will want you to join them
by getting baptized. To show the world your dedication to your new god Jehovah.
chapter 6. jesus and the flag.
my mother told me that “the end” was coming very soon.
so at the encouragement of mother and many others in the congregation i was baptized in january 1967 and started full time ministry as “pioneer” in may of 1968.. in fact she told me when i was younger that i would never even get out of high school before “the end” would come.
Chapter 6
Jesus and the flag
My mother told me that “the end” was coming very soon. So at the encouragement of mother and many others in the congregation I was baptized in January 1967 and started full time ministry as “pioneer” in May of 1968.
In fact she told me when I was younger that I would never even get out of high school before “the end” would come. She was wrong about that. I did get out of high school in 1967. Her grand kids got of high school too. Soon her great grands kids will be getting out of high school also. Yet even to this day fifty years later Jehovah’s Witness parents are telling their children how close “the end” is. The beat goes on.
I was pretty much a loner in high school. Most of the Jehovah’s Witnesses didn’t want to hang around me (Chapter 7 will have the reason for this) and “worldly friends” were not allowed. Anything outside the Jehovah’s Witnesses was considered “Worldly.” Meaning things of this world and not of god. Satan was in control of this world. So we had to stay free from anything he was controlling especially the people. What did this include? School sports, school clubs and school dances where they played the devil’s music.
It was written in Luke “I have written to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one. Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not from the Father but from the world.…
High school wasn’t very enjoyable. By the time 1966 and 1967 rolled around the Viet Nam war was going strong. I went from the kid that no one really noticed or cared about to one of the most hated kids in my high school. Nationalism was at fever pitch. My classmates didn’t like it when I didn’t salute the flag. When I didn’t stand up for the “National Anthem” all hell would break lose. I was spit on and slapped. People would ask me why I wouldn’t salute the flag. I would say “What flag would Jesus salute if he was here on Earth? All of them? None of them? Or Just the American flag? I would still get slapped. People are not really interested in logical answers like that.
Or they would say. “So, you won’t fight for your country?” “No” I would say. “Well” They would say. “What would happen if everyone thought the same way as you do?” “Well… I guess there would be no more wars!” They would look at me with a blank look on their face for a second then fire back. “No! I mean if everyone in this country wasn’t willing to go to war.”
Our way or the highway. People love to believe in the “us or them” concept.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are not active in politics. They are neutral and will not take up arms in time of war. They would rather go to prison then fight and kill for the country they live in. They are peaceful people. You know that when your son or daughter goes into the army they could get themselves killed, this of course is always a possibility. They have chosen employment in a kill or could be killed business. So really they have no reason to be surprised if their kids get killed. What would be a real surprise is if it was one of Jehovah’s Witnesses that killed them. The odds are, the people who killed your family, could belong to just about any religion on the planet except Jehovah’s Witnesses.
I had a friend in High School who was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness. By the time he had graduated he had left the Jehovah’s Witnesses. He join the army and went to Viet Nam. In 1987 I found him in California and called him up. He said he went to Viet Nam and had “no regrets.” I said, “I didn’t go to Viet Nam and I had no regrets either.”
I didn’t go to Viet Nam like so many of my classmates did. I didn’t believe in war back then. I still don’t believe in war now. Interesting that no one in my class died in Viet Nam but five guys who went over there came back and killed themselves. I guess some of my classmates had some regrets.
although i haven't called myself a witness in almost 15 years, i'm still married to one (which has it's own set of challenges and is fodder for a completely different post).
i haven't spent a lot of time on forums with other ex-jws either, but thought i would throw this question out to you all because it's something i still struggle with.... particularly for those of you who were raised in or were in the religion for many years - what has it been like for you to navigate the work world?
i would be a 3rd generation jw on one side of my family and a 4th generation on the other side -- the hardest thing for me has been just knowing how to act and behave, especially among co-workers.
Well, I like you have been out for 15 years too. I was raised in the "tooth" also, 50 years worth.
The problem that I see is even though you/we are "out" and we think of ourselves as "free" we are still subject to years and years of mental contamination. Yes, in many ways we are still plagued with the "wiring" of that thought system. Since you are still married to a believer, that contamination is with you on a daily basis. So how could their behavior not effect you? In essence you are not in their world but not really in "the world".......the world of endless possibilities.
You have chosen to swim with a fifty pound weight around your feet of course it's going to feel strange. I'm not telling you to get rid of the weight. I'm saying just get use to it feeling strange.
hi guys.. "brother" jose is quite possibly the most sinister speaker i've ever seen or heard.
and i've seen/head a lot of cults in my time.. he's over the top with his voice tone and gestures.
i see a future governing body member in the making here:.
I really like his huge skull and cross bones ring he was wearing.
one thing they never talked about at the assemblies was how many predictions they made in the pass about the so called end of the world.
predictions that never came to be.
i didn’t know it at the time and most jehovah’s witnesses didn’t know that charles russell (1852-1916), the founder, believed that christ had secretly arrived in the year 1874 and that he would establish the kingdom of god on earth in october 1914 russell based this prophecy on his studies of the bible and the great pyramid.
A key component to the calculation was derived from the book of Daniel, Chapter 4. The book refers to "seven times". He interpreted each "time" as equal to 360 days, giving a total of 2,520 days. He further interpreted this as representing exactly 2,520 years, measured from the starting date of 607 BC. This resulted in the year 1914 being the target date for the Millennium. Russell's belief became a key teaching of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Since late in the 19th century, they had taught that the "battle of the Great Day of God Almighty" (Armageddon) would happen in that year.
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Russell |
Said. “And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." Studies In The Scriptures, Vol. III, (1897) |
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"...we consider it an established truth that the final end
of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of
God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (1889). |
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"In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. II, (1889)
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However in 1912 he back pedaled"...he wrote that, while the prophecy remains valid, the power of the Gentiles could end either in October 1914 or in October 1915." |
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Lots of people join Russell's movement and it expanded rapidly, in the years leading up to 1914.
However, as the year 1914 came and passed without the visible appearance of Christ. The society regarded the start of the World War 1 as confirmation that the process leading to Christ's return, had started. They decided that 1914 was the year that Jesus invisibly began his rule from heaven.
In November 1914, immediately after Russell's prophecy had failed, he wrote that the period of transition could run a "good many years."
The Watchtower magazine suggested that the destruction would happen "...shortly after 1914 with the utter destruction" of other Christian denominations and the inauguration of Christ's millennial reign. They first predicted that this would happen in 1915. Drawing a parallel with the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Army in 70 CE, the authors of the 1915 Edition of "The Time Is At Hand" wrote:
"The Gentile Times prove that the present governments must all be overthrown about the close of A.D. 1915; and Parallelism above shows that this period corresponds exactly with the year A.D. 70, which witnessed the completion of the downfall of the Jewish polity."
After Russell's death in 1916, members of the society rewrote large portions of his Studies in the Scriptures to reflect the new belief that the year 1914 was merely the beginning of the end of Gentile times.
They later delayed the millennium to 1918. A 1917 publication, "The Finished Mystery" stated:
"...in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by millions, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity."
That year also passed uneventfully, except for the end of World War I.
The next estimate of the end of things was some time in 1925.
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In 1918, J.E. Rutherford, the WTS' second president and the author of "Millions now living will never die" wrote: "...there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and other faithful ones of old ... we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth.... Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." |
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In 1922, Rutherford wrote: "Fulfilled prophecy shows beyond a doubt that (Christ) did appear in 1874. Fulfilled prophecy is otherwise designated the physical facts; and these facts are indisputable....We understand that the jubilee type began to count in 1575 B.C.; and the 3,500 year period embracing the type must end in 1925....It follows, then, that the year 1925 will mark the beginning of the restoration of all things lost by Adam's disobedience." |
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In 1923, a Watchtower article predicted: "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." |
As the year approached, the WTS appeared to back-peddle somewhat:
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Watchtower magazine predicted in mid-1924: "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914; but it would be presumptuous on the part of any faithful follower of the Lord to assume just what the Lord is going to do during that year." 4 |
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At the beginning of 1925, a Watchtower article commented: "With great expectations Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be... Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." |
They regarded the year 1975 a promising date for the end of the world, based on their original belief that it was the 6,000th anniversary of creation of both Adam and Eve at the Garden of Eden in 4026 BC. They believe, along with many other conservative Protestant denominations that the world would exist for exactly 1,000 years for each day of the creation week. Their Watchtower or Awake magazines taught that:
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"According to reliable Bible chronology Adam was created in the year 4026 BC, likely in the autumn of the year, at the end of the sixth day of creation." |
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"According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 BC." |
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"Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man’s existence coincides with the Sabbath like thousand-year reign of Christ....Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth." |
This prophecy was put forward in their publications, notably Watchtower and Awake and at their assemblies. The close proximity of the end times encouraged the membership to increase their proselytizing efforts.
Membership rose significantly in the years leading up to 1975. Some members sold their possessions, cashed in their insurance policies, etc. in anticipation of the Millennium's arrival.
So no time to waste back in the nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies. No time to think about jobs. So college educations were not just frowned a ponded but highly discouraged. Very few people going to college back then. If you did go you were considered to be a spiritually weak person. It was never said to your face but talked behind your back. Yes, it was time to spread the news.
There was much talk of staying single and not getting married at all. It was no time to settle down and starting a family. The society knew if you got married, the odds of staying in the full time ministry was very low. So not only were less people getting married but many who were married decided to not have children for a while. They would wait until “the great tribulation” was over. Then it would be save to start their families. The thousands that served at the many “Bethel” headquarters of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world give up having any families too. It was law that no children were allowed at Bethel. So many who served there for 30, 40 and even 50 years gave up this privilege. There was a lot of very bitter people there who believed “the end” was coming any day. The only thing that ended was their possibility of having a family.
There was a scripture that was quoted a lot back then. “And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! … For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. ”
Something strange happened to me while I was in field service in the late nineteen nineties. I was going door to door in Tigard Oregon. I ring the door bell, like I have done thousands of times before. How many people have I talked to after forty years of “spreading the good news” who knows? This door was very different, at least the person behind it was. A pleasant looking blond haired man came to the door. He was in his late thirties and a slight smile on his face. I launched into my three minute sermon. He just stood there smiling. So I pulled out the “Watchtower and Awake” magazines and show him some stupid article about who knows what. After rambling on for minutes I finally asked him, what he thought. He stood there for a moment then he got a smile on his face and said. “I’m so grateful I don’t believe like you.” I stood there not knowing what to say. Then he said it again. “I’m so glad I don’t believe like you do.” I stood there with a strange look on my face and he said. “Wait here.” He turned and came back with a Watchtower in his hand. He also had with him what looked like his twelve year old son. Then he opened the watchtower up and read from it. “Your magazine says here. This is your magazine isn’t it?” I nodded yes. “It says here and I quote your magazine. ‘In view of the times we are living, it might be wise to not to have children because of the times we are living in.’ So, you see if I believed the same way you and your religion does, I would have never known the pleasure of my son here.” He put his hand on his sons head and smiled at us and said “Good bye.” I had nothing to say. He stepped back and shut his door. I thought to myself he was right.
it seems that many times in life there is a moment or an action that changes your whole world.
it could be just a look that someone gives you.. many times it can be something rather small.
something hardly noticeable by anyone but you.
My moment came one day about 1995. Something strange happened to me while I was in field service. I was going door to door in Tigard Oregon. I ring the door bell, like I have done thousands of times before. How many people have I talked to after forty years of “spreading the good news” who knows? This door was very different, at least the person behind it was. A pleasant looking blond haired man came to the door. He was in his late thirties and a slight smile on his face. I launched into my three minute sermon. He just stood there smiling. So I pulled out the “Watchtower and Awake” magazines and show him some stupid article about who knows what. After rambling on for minutes I finally asked him, what he thought. He stood there for a moment then he got a smile on his face and said. “I’m so grateful I don’t believe like you.” I stood there not knowing what to say. Then he said it again. “I’m so glad I don’t believe like you do.” I stood there with a strange look on my face and he said. “Wait here.” He turned and came back with a Watchtower in his hand. He also had with him what looked like his twelve year old son. Then he opened the watchtower up and read from it. “Your magazine says here. This is your magazine isn’t it?” I nodded yes. “It says here and I quote your magazine. ‘In view of the times we are living, it might be wise to not to have children because of the times we are living in.’ So, you see if I believed the same way you and your religion does, I would have never known the pleasure of my son here.” He put his hand on his sons head and smiled at us and said “Good bye.” I had nothing to say. He stepped back and shut his door. I thought to myself he was right.
it seems that many times in life there is a moment or an action that changes your whole world.
it could be just a look that someone gives you.. many times it can be something rather small.
something hardly noticeable by anyone but you.
It seems that many times in life there is a moment or an action that changes your whole world. It could be just a look that someone gives you.
Many times it can be something rather small. Something hardly noticeable by anyone but you. However when it happens you know you have crossed over into a whole other world. You have come to one of those huge defining moments in your life. A line has been crossed.
Like in the movie "Doctor Zhivago" when he had seen enough and turned his horse in another direction and left not caring if he was caught or not.
Or even when a marriage ends. Years of yelling and screaming and unhappiness ends one day because you didn't load the dishwasher properly. It wasn't the dishwasher and how it was loaded. It was everything that lead up to that moment!
My marriage was over years before that one moment came for me.
As they say it was "The straw that broke the camel's back."
That moment that tells you that you have been living a lie. That moment that tells you that you are done.
Done with the job, the relationship, the religion or sadly with life itself.
For a lack of a nail the shoe was lost. For the lack of a shoe the horse was lost. For the lack of a horse the rider was lost. For the lack of a rider the battle was lost.
What has been your defining moments?
sitting there watching the new hbo series last night, i couldn't help but laugh and think about the similarities.
the creators (the gods) and the hosts (their creations) have an interesting relationship.. the "hosts" are programmed to have free thinking but only up to a point.
just like the witnesses.
Sitting there watching the new HBO series last night, I couldn't help but laugh and think about the similarities.
The creators (the gods) and the hosts (their creations) have an interesting relationship.
The "hosts" are programmed to have free thinking but only up to a point. Just like the Witnesses. They make you believe that you have free will but do you? The only thing you ever study is their information. Even their Watchtower study, is people lining up their magazines, raising their hands and regurgitating the same information right back to them. If you do add some information other than what is printed you might get a frown or a weird look.
How ironic, was the part in the show that showed what happened to a "host" when they would go through some horrific experience and the creators or "gods" would just erase their memory of it!
The same crazy thing the Jehovah's Witnesses hope for!
Well, Sister Jones your parents and four kids all dead at Armageddon because they refused to follow god's rules. However the good news is, god in his loving kindness and (programming) mercy will erase every memory of them from your mind.
Yes! So you can now enjoy paradise without those pesky thoughts about all your loved ones.
Wow.... those creators/gods think of everything.
